DVA股價

巴菲特班洪瑞泰 (Michael On) » 討論區1 » DVA股價

mikeon88

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#16

發表於 2017-10-10 17:20 資料主頁文集私人訊息

Yvens

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#17

發表於 2017-10-10 19:14 資料私人訊息

簡單說DVA捐錢給腎的基金會..而基金會導引腎的病人都去找DVA...(這樣的作法是違法的..)
而JPMORGAN估計DVA營收60%~80%是來自此路徑..
因此當這爆開時...DVA後續的營收可能會大受影響.....所以DOWNGRADE..
還請DUWA大神從醫界角度開釋一下...是否是進場時機？

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/10/09/why-davita-inc-sank-lower-today.aspx

So whatEarlier this year, DaVita and fellow dialysis company Fresenius Medical Care (NYSE:FMS)received subpoenas from the U.S. Department of Justice over their contributions to the American Kidney Fund, a charity that provides financial assistance for patients who need dialysis.
The relationships between the companies and the nonprofit have raised concerns: Would the donations from the two largest kidney-dialysis companies lead American Kidney Fund to favor patients going to those dialysis facilities, while shunning patients going to facilities that haven't made contributions? The charity has an agreement with the government that forbids it from choosing patients based on their clinics.
American Kidney Fund was also helping patients pay for private insurance rather than rely on Medicaid, which would pay the dialysis facilities less per patient than private insurers. Those insurers are trying to figure out which patients American Kidney Fund is subsidizing and remove them from their rolls.
Now whatDaVita hasn't disclosed the total number of commercial patients that American Kidney Fund is subsidizing, but the J.P. Morgan analyst estimates that 60% to 80% of DaVita's earnings power is derived from its relationship with the American Kidney Fund. That isn't actually 60% to 80% of DaVita's total patient population, but since those patients are more profitable, they represent a larger portion of earnings.
If the analyst is right on his estimate and the profitable patients go away through either a settlement or court order, it could be painful to DaVita's earnings.

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#18

發表於 2017-10-10 22:28 資料私人訊息

我覺得這個事件只是一時的，等風頭過去了，照樣繼續這樣操作。DVA捐錢資助基金會->基金會介紹腎友DVA->腎友使用DVA服務
因為人總是會忘記，不管是台灣人還是阿豆仔，都是。
要關注的是DVA的好學生特質有沒有發生改變，它能不能好很久
我是覺得不變啦，教祖不是也買了…

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#19

發表於 2017-10-11 11:17 資料私人訊息

大家仔細看FMS股價跌得沒DVA多。
風險就是美國法務部開出天價罰款及醫療保險業者大砍受到American Kidney Fund(DVA)補助的病人，這兩點超出我範圍唷。

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#20

發表於 2017-10-11 14:11 資料私人訊息

牽涉到法規的利空通常都會持續好一陣子
例如某W銀行

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#21

發表於 2017-10-11 16:04 資料私人訊息

FMS 是 ADR 德國股票

小安

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#22

發表於 2017-11-8 23:50 資料私人訊息

DVA財報不如預期，目前跌了9%...

sywang33

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來自台北

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#23

發表於 2017-12-7 00:36 資料私人訊息

UNH 要買 DVA ...

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3316562-unitedhealths-optum-acquire-davita-medical-group-davita-3-percent-premarket

[ 本帖最後由 sywang33 於 2017-12-7 00:39 編輯 ]

Curry

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#24

發表於 2018-7-5 21:54 資料私人訊息

QUOTE:

原帖由 sywang33 於 2017-12-7 00:36 發表
UNH 要買 DVA ...

https://seekingalpha.com/news/33 ... 3-percent-premarket

僅有DaVita Medical Group (DMG)要賣給UNH，DVA仍保有DaVita Kidney Care (Kidney Care)
Overview of DaVita Inc.
The Company has consisted of two major divisions, DaVita Kidney Care (Kidney Care) and DaVita Medical Group (DMG). Kidney Care is comprised of our U.S. dialysis and related lab services, our ancillary services and strategic initiatives, including our international operations, and our corporate administrative support. Our U.S. dialysis and related lab services business is our largest line of business and is a leading provider of kidney dialysis services in the U.S. for patients suffering from chronic kidney failure, also known as end stage renal disease (ESRD). DMG is a patient- and physician-focused integrated healthcare delivery and management company with over two decades of providing coordinated, outcomes-based medical care in a cost-effective manner.
On December 5, 2017, we entered into an equity purchase agreement to sell our DMG division to Collaborative Care Holdings, LLC (Optum), a subsidiary of UnitedHealth Group Inc.(僅有DMG要賣給UNH) The transaction is expected to close in 2018 and is subject to regulatory approval and other customary closing conditions. As a result of this pending transaction, the DMG business has been reclassified as held for sale and its results of operations are reported as discontinued operations for all periods presented in our consolidated financial statements included in this report.
Our U.S. dialysis and related lab services business is a leading provider of kidney dialysis services for patients suffering from ESRD. As of December 31, 2017, we provided dialysis and administrative services in the U.S. through a network of 2,510 outpatient dialysis centers in 46 states and the District of Columbia, serving a total of approximately 197,800 patients. We also provide acute inpatient dialysis services in approximately 900 hospitals and related laboratory services throughout the U.S.

http://www.rocketfinancial.com/FetchDoc.aspx?fid=6443418

[ 本帖最後由 Curry 於 2018-7-5 22:07 編輯 ]

Curry

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#25

發表於 2018-7-5 22:04 資料私人訊息

NYSE:FMS費森尤斯歐洲股份兩合公司（德語：Fresenius SE & Co. KGaA）是一間總部位於黑森州巴特洪堡的德國醫療技術和保健公司。該公司是《財富》雜誌評出的世界500強之一，也是德國最大的製藥醫療服務企業和私立醫院運營商，於2007年7月13日正式建制為歐洲股份公司 [2]，並於2009年3月23日成為德國DAX指數的成分公司[3]。此外，費森尤斯還持有透析企業費森尤斯醫療的多數股權 [4]https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/费森尤斯
Through its network of more than 3,700 dialysis clinics in North America, Europe, Latin America, Asia-Pacific and Africa, Fresenius Medical Care provides dialysis treatments for more than 320,000 patients around the globe. Fresenius Medical Care is also the world‘s leading provider of dialysis products such as hemodialysis machines, dialyzers and related disposable products.https://www.fresenius.com/fresenius-medical-care

Curry

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#26

發表於 2018-7-6 12:48 資料私人訊息

DaVita's Big Insurance Problem

Summary
DaVita receives all of its profitability from insurance payers.
Insurance companies are no longer going to allow premium assistance from the American Kidney Fund.
The scope of aid from the fund is larger then what DaVita has let on.

Insurance Payers
DaVita (NYSE:DVA) is one of two large dialysis providers in the United States, and all of its profitability is propped up by its insurance payers. Insurance payers account for 33% of the company’s revenue but only make up 10.5% of its total patients. The problem is that since the federal government no longer mandates Americans buy health insurance, it is expected that roughly 13 million healthy Americans will opt out of having health insurance entirely. DaVita relies on its healthy patients’ insurance payments to support their kidney dialysis recipients - it takes 3,800 healthy patients to pay for 1 kidney dialysis patient ($150,000 annually). With those healthy patients no longer paying into health insurance, this means DaVita’s kidney dialysis patients could go unfunded. This means the company’s insurance paying kidney dialysis patients - its only profitable clients - are in danger. As a result, so is DaVita.

The American Kidney Fund
DaVita’s insurance payers rely heavily upon the American Kidney Fund (AKF) for financial support in its dialysis programs. The AKF helps by offering to pay health insurance premiums for its clients. This cushions the blow for patients and pads the bottom line for the company. Both DaVita and the AKF have come under fire in the past few years.
A lawsuit filed by United Healthcare alleged that DaVita steered Americans off of Medicare plans and onto commercial plans. The lawsuit went on to say that DaVita then encouraged those patients to receive aid from the AKF, which DaVita donates heavily to. As a result of all of this, health insurance companies have incorporated into their policies that they will no longer allow charitable donations to pay for patients’ premiums. DaVita acknowledge this in its latest 10-Q:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4182203-davitas-big-insurance-problem

[ 本帖最後由 Curry 於 2018-7-6 13:04 編輯 ]

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#27

發表於 2018-7-6 13:19 資料私人訊息

UNH都出手要破壞DaVita跟AKF的合作模式，管見以為即便短期風頭過了但難保未來不會有類似狀況發生
不知Ted哥是否有其他的想法？

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#28

發表於 2018-7-7 22:13 資料私人訊息

https://www.healio.com/nephrology/practice-management/news/online/%7Bd894132b-b577-435e-8dec-401cd89d1b1e%7D/the-largest-dialysis-providers-in-2017-more-jump-on-integrated-care-bandwagon

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#29

發表於 2018-7-7 22:41 資料私人訊息

查了一下第一大

ted_17

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#30

發表於 2018-7-8 09:40 資料私人訊息

QUOTE:

原帖由 Curry 於 2018-7-6 13:19 發表
UNH都出手要破壞DaVita跟AKF的合作模式，管見以為即便短期風頭過了但難保未來不會有類似狀況發生

不知Ted哥是否有其他的想法？

Apologies, as of late I have been busy.
要討論這個事情，請容我把我的良知從腦袋裡拿出來。
以下為我的拙見。
輿論市場風氣怎麼談是一回事，我傾向認為法院的判決長期看來會幫助DVA還ˊ有UNH。
在美國政府提供的此表可以得知DVA 在美國各州都有Operation:通路廣；況且洗腎科技是比較精巧高度分工的。
腎病末期需洗腎病人不洗腎的這個決定與他們本身的生理條件不相容，換句話說不洗會死。
我傾向於不相信保險不給付就不會洗腎。保險不給付的項目為自費項目。
短期內使用DVA的病人可能會下降(保險不給付，我找別間洗腎中心)，但是我認為不影響DVA長期的領導地位(可是離我家近的洗腎就那幾家，我不洗會死)。
保險公司只禁止慈善機構幫助病患繳保費，但是並沒有禁止慈善機構幫助病患繳自費項目帳單。(美國有錢人閒閒不知道要贊助哪種慈善事業的一大堆)
OK。現在把良知放回腦袋裡。我非常不贊同洗腎中心與慈善機構這樣的做法。
但是話說回來，
我很想要買FMS與DVA，但是現在已經持股一半了。

QUOTE:

原帖由 duwa 於 2017-10-11 11:17 發表
風險就是美國法務部開出天價罰款及醫療保險業者大砍受到American Kidney Fund(DVA)補助的病人，這兩點超出我範圍唷。

Duwa同學說的沒有錯，所以才會想要FMS&DVA兩頭買。
佛羅里達州District Court Case Number: 16-cv-81180-KAM
判決書PDF:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-flsd-9_16-cv-81180/pdf/USCOURTS-flsd-9_16-cv-81180-0.pdf