標題: 極為重要的觀點
mikeon88
管理員
Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9


UID 1
精華 0
積分 0
帖子 15453
閱讀權限 255
註冊 2007-1-14
用戶註冊天數 6311
用戶失蹤天數 4

111.243.15.136
分享 
發表於 2013-1-17 10:04  資料 主頁 文集 私人訊息 
極為重要的觀點
水白 於 2013/1/17 上午10:01 寫道:

dear 洪老師:

一家公司的毛利率總是上上下下,就一位長期投資者而言, 我們在意的是產業地位會不會變。我買股票都買在毛利率降低,營收衰退時。

我想很多同學買股票,都喜歡買在:毛利率高/roe高/....等高點,原來這不是很好的買法.

受教了,感謝!

頂部
mikeon88
管理員
Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9


UID 1
精華 0
積分 0
帖子 15453
閱讀權限 255
註冊 2007-1-14
用戶註冊天數 6311
用戶失蹤天數 4

111.243.15.136
發表於 2013-1-17 10:05  資料 主頁 文集 私人訊息 
高毛利率不等於高獲利

From: mikeon
發表於 2011-9-5 14:32

毛利率高低是跟產業別有關,
跟公司最後會不會賺錢無關

威盛的毛利28%,最後虧損
鴻海毛利不到6%,卻很賺錢

鴻海做代工,以量大取勝,
毛利率不用太高,照樣賺大錢

單就單一公司鴻海來看,
鴻海20年來毛利率一路下降,卻越賺越多

宏達電也是,
2010年宏達電採取機海戰略,
不惜犠牲毛利率,來搶市場占有率。
手機越賣越好,ROE反而上升,
股價也由300元漲到1,300元。

即便毛利率下降,
只要維持住高ROE,
股價一樣會漲


From: mikeon
發表於 2011-9-6 19:27

有人堅持選股一定要看毛利率,
再問他,會不會因毛利率下降而把股票賣掉 ?
卻說:不會 !

邏輯矛盾 !!


From: mikeon
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 1:01 PM

有人主張好公司的特徵之一是有定價能力,
決定產品價格的能力
說高毛利的公司才有定價能力,
這個看法顯然是錯的:

1. 定價能力跟公司會不會賺錢根本無關
像巴菲特班學費是遵循最初在文大推廣部的定價,
只是學費的跟隨者
可是上課人數卻多到爆

2. 低毛利的公司也有定價能力,
鴻海調升工資,蘋果電腦也一同分擔,
多給付手機售價的2%。

3. 一般人無從判斷公司有無定價能力,
請問帝寶、永記、聚陽有定價能力嗎 ?

4. 毛利率低就是賺辛苦錢嗎 ?

頂部
kuenhsieh
同學




UID 558
精華 0
積分 0
帖子 755
閱讀權限 99
註冊 2011-7-18
用戶註冊天數 4665
用戶失蹤天數 1213

114.27.34.26
發表於 2013-1-17 11:19  資料 私人訊息 
毛利率的確不代表一切

下圖是鴻海的歷年資料
紅色框框是轉型期
它最厲害的地方是不斷印股還能讓獲利能力維持平穩持續好長一段時間

但達到一定規模後 要再維持很難了 近期的投資案效果都不怎麼好
所以郭董也在思考下一步轉型 以代工為主 通路為輔(不過效果似乎不彰?)

個人認為 不能單看毛利高低來決定一家公司
而是要瞭解公司的競爭優勢在哪

量化很簡單 要從量化資料中找到成長股不難

但要加入質的因素進來 這就要做非常多的功課了


頂部
mikeon88
管理員
Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9


UID 1
精華 0
積分 0
帖子 15453
閱讀權限 255
註冊 2007-1-14
用戶註冊天數 6311
用戶失蹤天數 4

111.243.15.136
發表於 2013-1-17 11:26  資料 主頁 文集 私人訊息 
同學看一下巴菲特怎麼分析公司,
而不是看一些不重要的東西
像CCC、杜邦公式、M1b、流動比率、毛利率、RSI、Vix、
MACD、外資借券、利息保障倍數、成交量、主力、
選舉行情...等等




波克夏年報最精華的一段

波克夏年報最精華的一段
若沒時間看完年報,只看這一段就好

2007年報
Businesses – The Great, the Good and the Gruesome
Let's take a look at what kind of businesses turn us on. And while we're at it, let's also discuss what we wish to avoid.
Charlie and I look for companies that have a) a business we understand; b) favorable long-term economics; c) able and trustworthy management; and d) a sensible price tag. We like to buy the whole business or, if management is our partner, at least 80%. When control-type purchases of quality aren't available, though, we are also happy to simply buy small portions of great businesses by way of stockmarket purchases. It's better to have a part interest in the Hope Diamond than to own all of a rhinestone. A truly great business must have an enduring "moat" that protects excellent returns on invested capital. The dynamics of capitalism guarantee that competitors will repeatedly assault any business "castle" that is earning high returns. Therefore a formidable barrier such as a company's being the lowcost producer (GEICO, Costco) or possessing a powerful world-wide brand (Coca-Cola, Gillette, American Express) is essential for sustained success. Business history is filled with "Roman Candles," companies whose moats proved illusory and were soon crossed. Our criterion of "enduring" causes us to rule out companies in industries prone to rapid and continuous change 能好很久的標準讓我們排除快速變遷的產業. Though capitalism's "creative destruction" is highly beneficial for society, it precludes investment certainty. A moat that must be continuously rebuilt will eventually be no moat at all.
Additionally, this criterion eliminates the business whose success depends on having a great manager. Of course, a terrific CEO is a huge asset for any enterprise, and at Berkshire we have an abundance of these managers. Their abilities have created billions of dollars of value that would never have materialized if typical CEOs had been running their businesses.
But if a business requires a superstar to produce great results, the business itself cannot be deemed great. A medical partnership led by your area's premier brain surgeon may enjoy outsized and growing earnings, but that tells little about its future. The partnership's moat will go when the surgeon goes. You can count, though, on the moat of the Mayo Clinic to endure, even though you can't name its CEO.

Long-term competitive advantage in a stable industry is what we seek in a business 在穩定的產業中具有長期的競爭優勢是我們尋找的企業. If that comes with rapid organic growth, great. But even without organic growth, such a business is rewarding. We will simply take the lush earnings of the business and use them to buy similar businesses elsewhere. There's no rule that you have to invest money where you've earned it. Indeed, it's often a mistake to do so: Truly great businesses, earning huge returns on tangible assets, can't for any extended period reinvest a large portion of their earnings internally at high rates of return.
Let's look at the prototype of a dream business, our own See's Candy. The boxed-chocolates industry in which it operates is unexciting: Per-capita consumption in the U.S. is extremely low and doesn't grow. Many once-important brands have disappeared, and only three companies have earned more than token profits over the last forty years. Indeed, I believe that See's, though it obtains the bulk of its revenues from only a few states, accounts for nearly half of the entire industry's earnings.
At See's, annual sales were 16 million pounds of candy when Blue Chip Stamps purchased the company in 1972. (Charlie and I controlled Blue Chip at the time and later merged it into Berkshire .) Last year See's sold 31 million pounds, a growth rate of only 2% annually. Yet its durable competitive advantage, built by the See's family over a 50-year period, and strengthened subsequently by Chuck Huggins and Brad Kinstler, has produced extraordinary results for Berkshire .
We bought See's for $25 million when its sales were $30 million and pre-tax earnings were less than $5 million. The capital then required to conduct the business was $8 million. (Modest seasonal debt was also needed for a few months each year.) Consequently, the company was earning 60% pre-tax on invested capital. Two factors helped to minimize the funds required for operations. First, the product was sold for cash, and that eliminated accounts receivable. Second, the production and distribution cycle was short, which minimized inventories.
Last year See's sales were $383 million, and pre-tax profits were $82 million. The capital now required to run the business is $40 million. This means we have had to reinvest only $32 million since 1972 to handle the modest physical growth – and somewhat immodest financial growth – of the business. In the meantime pre-tax earnings have totaled $1.35 billion. All of that, except for the $32 million, has been sent to Berkshire (or, in the early years, to Blue Chip). After paying corporate taxes on the profits, we have used the rest to buy other attractive businesses. Just as Adam and Eve kick-started an activity that led to six billion humans, See's has given birth to multiple new streams of cash for us. (The biblical command to "be fruitful and multiply" is one we take seriously at Berkshire .)
There aren't many See's in Corporate America. Typically, companies that increase their earnings from $5 million to $82 million require, say, $400 million or so of capital investment to finance their growth. That's because growing businesses have both working capital needs that increase in proportion to sales growth and significant requirements for fixed asset investments.
A company that needs large increases in capital to engender its growth may well prove to be a satisfactory investment. There is, to follow through on our example, nothing shabby about earning $82 million pre-tax on $400 million of net tangible assets. But that equation for the owner is vastly different from the See's situation.It's far better to have an ever-increasing stream of earnings with virtually no major capital requirements. Ask Microsoft or Google.
One example of good, but far from sensational, business economics is our own FlightSafety. This company delivers benefits to its customers that are the equal of those delivered by any business that I know of. It also possesses a durable competitive advantage: Going to any other flight-training provider than the best is like taking the low bid on a surgical procedure.

Nevertheless, this business requires a significant reinvestment of earnings if it is to grow. When we purchased FlightSafety in 1996, its pre-tax operating earnings were $111 million, and its net investment in fixed assets was $570 million. Since our purchase, depreciation charges have totaled $923 million. But capital expenditures have totaled $1.635 billion, most of that for simulators to match the new airplane models that are constantly being introduced. (A simulator can cost us more than $12 million, and we have 273 of them.) Our fixed assets, after depreciation, now amount to $1.079 billion. Pre-tax operating earnings in 2007 were $270 million, a gain of $159 million since 1996. That gain gave us a good, but far from See's-like, return on our incremental investment of $509 million. Consequently, if measured only by economic returns, FlightSafety is an excellent but not extraordinary business. Its put-up-more-to-earn-more experience is that faced by most corporations. For example, our large investment in regulated utilities falls squarely in this category. We will earn considerably more money in this business ten years from now, but we will invest many billions to make it.
Now let's move to the gruesome. The worst sort of business is one that grows rapidly, requires significant capital to engender the growth, and then earns little or no money. Think airlines. Here a durable competitive advantage has proven elusive ever since the days of the Wright Brothers. Indeed, if a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk , he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down.
The airline industry's demand for capital ever since that first flight has been insatiable. Investors have poured money into a bottomless pit, attracted by growth when they should have been repelled by it. And I, to my shame, participated in this foolishness when I had Berkshire buy U.S. Air preferred stock in 1989. As the ink was drying on our check, the company went into a tailspin, and before long our preferred dividend was no longer being paid. But we then got very lucky. In one of the recurrent, but always misguided, bursts of optimism for airlines, we were actually able to sell our shares in 1998 for a hefty gain.
In the decade following our sale, the company went bankrupt. Twice.
To sum up, think of three types of "savings accounts." The great one pays an extraordinarily high interest rate that will rise as the years pass. The good one pays an attractive rate of interest that will be earned also on deposits that are added. Finally, the gruesome account both pays an inadequate interest rate and requires you to keep adding money at those disappointing returns.


好學生的特質:
產品不變 → 高市占
產品會變 → 多角化
頂部